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 No thanks Obama

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bludeath

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PostSubject: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 12:55 am

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Elisabeth
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 12:57 am

really quick... do you not like Obama?

i dont want to watch becuase i dont have any opinions.
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Mark
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 12:58 am

I don't know it all sounds like a decent idea except for the slowing of the development of future weapons.
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:00 am

Well, don't vote if you have no opinions. Obama is horse shit as far as I'm concerned. I may say things a little radically, but seriously now, do a little research... well I could do it for you if you like...

Oh, and as a side note... do you think a republican could get away in left-wing dominated news like obama has?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMcDrbM4slY

I think not...
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:02 am

Terrible idea Mark, just terrible... instant pulling out of ANY war means way too many deaths than we can morally accept. Secondly, because people HATE us, you CANNOT lower defense of any sorts and just say, "Dude man, lets, you know, be peaceful and throw away all our weapons" when we have terrorists that will NOT comply to what we do...

Lets say we dismantle our weaponry... do you think anyone else will? As a economic powerhouse, I hope to God we are a military powerhouse... otherwise we are ripe for the picking.
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:08 am

Heh heh... that wasn't a personal attack Mark... you know I love ya, no matter what you do... I just like to make my opinions clear sometimes haha
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Mark
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:11 am

And why may I ask does everyone hate us? Is it maybe because we feel that it is necessary to police the world? Or is it maybe the fact that once we have finished policing in one area we decide to invade another just because we are already nearly there? Pulling out of a war that should never have been started in the first place is the best idea that there is, we only fucked Iraq up more than it already was.

I know you love me, and the fact that you are so opinionated is why I love living with you.
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:23 am

If that is your view on the present situation, then your warranted that. However, I know many troops who are family friends that continue to volunteer to fight? And why would they do that if it is some bull-shit war for oil or political power or any other reason? Why would people VOLUNTEER to CONTINUE to fight for something that is "well-known" as a hopeless or unhelpful war? Because they see first hand the change, the hope that is being given to a people used to living under constant fear, people who are now beginning to taste the sweet taste of being an individual allowed to vote, to maybe someday have freedom of speech against their government. What do you think makes you allowed to say that the military is unjust, cruel and limiting others freedoms? The military.

Pulling out may be your opinion. If so, vote Hillary, at least she seems to want to take a more gradual stance on it. What ever you do, don't do it quick, that will just lead to death and dissolution of all that has been built. But I believe from personal first hand accounts that what is going on is good. The news is opinionated. Thats a fact, there is no denying. The war seems wrong when all you hear is the wrong.
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 1:24 am

Excuse the first question mark, that should be a period Razz
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Mark
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am

Damn! I just deleted a three page rebuttal on accident!!!!!!!!

I will give you the shortened version.

1. When did I ever say that the military is cruel, unjust, or limiting other's freedoms?

2. Hillary isn't going to be running against McCain, she is going to lose in the primaries to Oboma.

3. Don't give me this load of bull about your family friends who continue to volunteer for military service. I have four uncles, all of which fought in Iraq, and all of which left the military because the fighting was pointless. Instead of fighting for one of the noble causes that you listed they were instead fighting to keep themselves and the men under their command alive.

4. Can you honestly justify the 4,080 killed and 100,000 injured American soldiers to date? How about the 601,000 and God knows how many injured Iraqi soldiers? What about the civilian deaths, so numerous they can't even be estimated because theses civilians we are apparently protecting are getting bombs dropped on them by the very army that is apparently their to protect them. I am not saying that the common soldier doesn't care, I am saying that the higher ups don't give a damn, war is a game to them. Our guys, their guys, it doesn't matter they are all just numbers, not to mention averaging an age of 19 or 20, our peers.

5. You aren't understanding me at all when I say that this war is pointless. This war wasn't started for the oil, if it was we wouldn't be paying so much for gas right now. It wasn't started for political reasons either, the war was started because Americans were dumb enough to elect a president who is obsessed with spending money, mostly on weapons. Since Bush got into office the amount of government money spent on weapons has increased by over 700 billion dollars. The economy was under strain because of the increase of taxes to include this 700 billion dollar increase, as well as 9/11, but I am not claiming that attacking Afghanistan was such a bad idea, the terrorists that attacked us did come from there after all. So in an effort to stimulate the economy and therefore be able to increase government spending even more the president started another war, claiming that it was because the "enemy" had WMDs, which were never found mind you. War is apparently very profitable seeing as our economy is still fucked.

6. Take into account also that we put the current government into place during the last war that we had in Iraq, and that the Iraqi army that we are fighting is using weapons that we gave them.

7. I have stated on many occasions how little I care about being an American, sure it is nice to have these freedoms, and be prosperous, but I could honestly careless. I am fine with doing grunt labor, I actually enjoy it. I am fine with not having electricity, I actually try to use as little of it as possible. I am fine with living in a fucking hut, shit I go do that for fun. I don't care where I live, I can be happy anywhere, sure I guess that makes me unpatriotic, but war is wrong no matter what reason it is fought for.

8. Since when did I watch the news?

Now, in light of this increase going strictly to weapons used in a war that they themselves caused, maybe Barrack Obama has the right idea to cut spending on weapons. He is not trying to get rid of military spending completely, just decrease it. You have to remember that we started this war, we were unprovoked and none of our people were attacked until we sent troops into Iraq. What does having a huge stock pile of weapons help? If America could just learn to keep there nose out of other countries business we wouldn't be fighting all the time.
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Mark
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 3:22 am

Wow I just found this on accident, it was posted on totse like ten minutes ago. Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8ZlycYOafo
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 4:07 pm

After reading this entire conversation, I am inclined to stop visiting these forums altogether. See you guys in August.
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bludeath

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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 4:46 pm

Well, I don't feel any lesser of Mark when I argue politics, and I assume he feels the same about me.

But, since this little debate offends you Matt, I will end it. Besides, we were getting off topic anyways... who cares about the war when we can all agree that we are in a war. Thats what matters, how presidents deal with the current situation. If Mark wants me to rebuttal his rebuttal, we can find elsewhere to do it... I just thought it was an interesting topic.
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Mark
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PostSubject: Re: No thanks Obama   Fri May 23, 2008 6:27 pm

I agree, we are just discussing how we feel about certain things, isn't that the point of a forum? Sorry to offend you Matt, but honestly if you feel that strongly about it why don't you post your opinion? I was actually looking forward to your stance on the situation.
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